Background info - long
First, I'll start with some background information.
For those of you who recognize this post, the last three paragraphs were added, so you can skip down to there.
I've been attracted to the same sex for the last 5 years, or at least that's when I admitted it to myself. I've gone through many different stages. The first stage I went through was denial. I went pretty quickly into anger as well. I don't know who I was mad at, but I was mad. I talked to my psychologist about the first dream I had where I was with another woman. I remember crying and screaming out, I can't be gay, I can't be a lesbian, I just can't. She told me not to act on it and I'd be fine. She went on to explain what she thought the dream really meant and that it had nothing to do with wanting to be with women. I continued seeing her for another month or two, but we never touched on that subject again.
I began working at a movie theater and there were many scantily clad girls all the time. What was worse was that my male manager would stand there with me and point out how "sexy" the "chicks" were. One day, a guy asked me if I had a boyfriend. I really wasn't interested in him AT ALL, so as a joke, I said, "No, but I have a girlfriend." Now, keep in mind that I had never even seriously considered going out with a woman. I was active in my ward and went to the temple semi-regularly. I told one of the other managers what I said to the guy, but I prefaced it with, I'm not gay but......and told him the story. It turns out that this manager was gay. I had no idea. Well, he assumed that since I said that, that I was really gay but still in the closet. He started talking to me about things like noticing someone's rainbow ring and things like that. At that point, I still had no idea what he was talking about. Then one day, a girl started talking to me online. She asked if we could meet and I said sure. We hung out a lot and kissed once. That was all.
For several months, I had been talking to a lady from Idaho. She was married and had 2 kids. I invited her to come visit and she agreed. I told her about the dream, my psychologist, my brief encounter with the woman, and told her that I would understand if she didn't want to meet me since I might be gay. She told me that she wasn't worried because she was secure in her sexuality. After about a week or so into her visit, we started holding hands, but not in a bad way at all. Then one day, I kissed her. I didn't really mean to. I can't explain it. I know it sounds stupid, but it just happened. She ended up moving here. She left her husband (who was abusive and she claims -even to this day - that she was about to leave him anyway) and one of her sons (who refused to come) and came here. That's when I really went through several stages. We went through a stage where we were "together". We introduced each other as our girlfriend, we put my name on her son's school records as step-mother. We continued going to church, but we also went to the local gay and lesbian church as well. Her son went to scout camp and while he was there, he told his friends about us. This had been forbidden - he was told not to tell anyone in the church (which should have told us something was wrong.) The Bishop came to me and said that the young man had been
telling lies and this is what he said. (I was in too much shock and too afraid to tell him that he was actually telling the truth.) The Bishop assumed that he was lying because he had severe honesty issues. Hhmmm, could part of that be because his mom(s) were teaching him to tell the truth to some and lie to others? A couple years later, the Bishop was released and the father of one of the kids he told was called. He never asked us if it was true or not, but he recommended that we not live together. He said that with her son going through puberty, that it would be detrimental to him to have a single young female living with them. I am 28 now. His mother is 48. He is almost 17. This was about 3 years ago. Instead of listening, we moved in order to change wards. His mom and I were no longer "together" and everything seemed to be going well. Our new Bishop (whom I had known forquite some time) was very supportive of us and helped us deal with her son's many serious issues. We still live together, but now in a platonic relationship. She is my best friend.
Here is the problem. I want to be attracted to men, but I'm not. I know with all of my heart that the Church is true. I know that it is the right thing to do to get married and have children so that I can progress in the Celestial Kingdom. However, it is so very very hard. I would love to be able to find a man who could be understanding about what I'm going through and was able to help me into having a somewhat normal relationship. I do long for children, and yes, I know what it takes to get them. More so, I long to do the will of my Father. Although this has been my goal for about a year, I've gone through many hours of prayer in which I show my anger and discontentment with the cross I have been given to bear. I have cried so many times saying, "I just want to be normal." I don't know where to do. I don't know who to talk to. Oh, I forgot to mention that after I had been with my then-girlfriend, now-roommate for about a year, I went back to my psychologist. She asked why I stayed away so long and I told her that it was because I had gone against what she said, which was to not act on my feelings, or the dream. She stated that she only said that because I didn't WANT to be a lesbian. She went on to say that if I was OK with being with a woman that she was all for it. That made things more difficult. I later went to a Psychiatrist with whom I shared my dilemma. She said that her goal in our therapy was for me to ultimately be happy, whether that meant being lesbian, or being Mormon. I tried to explain to her my faith and she said that perhaps I would eventually even be OK being a lesbian AND a Mormon. That has never happened.
I went on a date almost two weeks ago with a man. This is the first date with a man in over 5 years. It felt good, but it was also very scary. I don't know how to tell someone especially someone who is LDS about my problem. I'm also not comfortable keeping it from them either. I expressed my desire to date again about a year ago to my Bishop. I shared a couple other problems that I have with dating and he helped me start working through those. I never told him about my same sex attraction though. Right when we were making tremendous progress, he was released. I think he suspected something at one point because he called me into his office and asked me one question. You wouldn't do anything against the law of chastity, against your covenants would you? I said no, and said something along the lines of, besides, the last guy I dated was __________ and that's been a little while. He looked puzzled for a second and then said, "That's right, you did go out with him didn't you?" He never brought it up again. I guess it's weird for "normal Mormons" to think that one could go out with one sex while being attracted to the other.
In fact, I think I know why he suspected something. I'm fairly certain that one person in particular went to him and told him that I was with a woman. He knew this because, well, I told him. He came in to my place of employment and he commented how happy I seemed. I told him yes, and proceeded to tell him why. I showed him my engagement ring and told him who I was with. When he questioned me further I told him that it wasn't really a big deal as far as the church was concerned because I wasn't going to do anything with her that I couldn't do with a boyfriend before marriage.
She and I continued to make marriage plans. We decided on the Netherlands. We knew that we needed to be "legally and lawfully wed". When we found out that the marriage wouldn't be considered legal back here in the US, we thought about moving to the Netherlands and staying there.
Well, I guess that's enough background info for now. Now I'll at least feel like I can talk about my current living situation and everyone will understand what I'm talking about.
For those of you who recognize this post, the last three paragraphs were added, so you can skip down to there.
I've been attracted to the same sex for the last 5 years, or at least that's when I admitted it to myself. I've gone through many different stages. The first stage I went through was denial. I went pretty quickly into anger as well. I don't know who I was mad at, but I was mad. I talked to my psychologist about the first dream I had where I was with another woman. I remember crying and screaming out, I can't be gay, I can't be a lesbian, I just can't. She told me not to act on it and I'd be fine. She went on to explain what she thought the dream really meant and that it had nothing to do with wanting to be with women. I continued seeing her for another month or two, but we never touched on that subject again.
I began working at a movie theater and there were many scantily clad girls all the time. What was worse was that my male manager would stand there with me and point out how "sexy" the "chicks" were. One day, a guy asked me if I had a boyfriend. I really wasn't interested in him AT ALL, so as a joke, I said, "No, but I have a girlfriend." Now, keep in mind that I had never even seriously considered going out with a woman. I was active in my ward and went to the temple semi-regularly. I told one of the other managers what I said to the guy, but I prefaced it with, I'm not gay but......and told him the story. It turns out that this manager was gay. I had no idea. Well, he assumed that since I said that, that I was really gay but still in the closet. He started talking to me about things like noticing someone's rainbow ring and things like that. At that point, I still had no idea what he was talking about. Then one day, a girl started talking to me online. She asked if we could meet and I said sure. We hung out a lot and kissed once. That was all.
For several months, I had been talking to a lady from Idaho. She was married and had 2 kids. I invited her to come visit and she agreed. I told her about the dream, my psychologist, my brief encounter with the woman, and told her that I would understand if she didn't want to meet me since I might be gay. She told me that she wasn't worried because she was secure in her sexuality. After about a week or so into her visit, we started holding hands, but not in a bad way at all. Then one day, I kissed her. I didn't really mean to. I can't explain it. I know it sounds stupid, but it just happened. She ended up moving here. She left her husband (who was abusive and she claims -even to this day - that she was about to leave him anyway) and one of her sons (who refused to come) and came here. That's when I really went through several stages. We went through a stage where we were "together". We introduced each other as our girlfriend, we put my name on her son's school records as step-mother. We continued going to church, but we also went to the local gay and lesbian church as well. Her son went to scout camp and while he was there, he told his friends about us. This had been forbidden - he was told not to tell anyone in the church (which should have told us something was wrong.) The Bishop came to me and said that the young man had been
telling lies and this is what he said. (I was in too much shock and too afraid to tell him that he was actually telling the truth.) The Bishop assumed that he was lying because he had severe honesty issues. Hhmmm, could part of that be because his mom(s) were teaching him to tell the truth to some and lie to others? A couple years later, the Bishop was released and the father of one of the kids he told was called. He never asked us if it was true or not, but he recommended that we not live together. He said that with her son going through puberty, that it would be detrimental to him to have a single young female living with them. I am 28 now. His mother is 48. He is almost 17. This was about 3 years ago. Instead of listening, we moved in order to change wards. His mom and I were no longer "together" and everything seemed to be going well. Our new Bishop (whom I had known forquite some time) was very supportive of us and helped us deal with her son's many serious issues. We still live together, but now in a platonic relationship. She is my best friend.
Here is the problem. I want to be attracted to men, but I'm not. I know with all of my heart that the Church is true. I know that it is the right thing to do to get married and have children so that I can progress in the Celestial Kingdom. However, it is so very very hard. I would love to be able to find a man who could be understanding about what I'm going through and was able to help me into having a somewhat normal relationship. I do long for children, and yes, I know what it takes to get them. More so, I long to do the will of my Father. Although this has been my goal for about a year, I've gone through many hours of prayer in which I show my anger and discontentment with the cross I have been given to bear. I have cried so many times saying, "I just want to be normal." I don't know where to do. I don't know who to talk to. Oh, I forgot to mention that after I had been with my then-girlfriend, now-roommate for about a year, I went back to my psychologist. She asked why I stayed away so long and I told her that it was because I had gone against what she said, which was to not act on my feelings, or the dream. She stated that she only said that because I didn't WANT to be a lesbian. She went on to say that if I was OK with being with a woman that she was all for it. That made things more difficult. I later went to a Psychiatrist with whom I shared my dilemma. She said that her goal in our therapy was for me to ultimately be happy, whether that meant being lesbian, or being Mormon. I tried to explain to her my faith and she said that perhaps I would eventually even be OK being a lesbian AND a Mormon. That has never happened.
I went on a date almost two weeks ago with a man. This is the first date with a man in over 5 years. It felt good, but it was also very scary. I don't know how to tell someone especially someone who is LDS about my problem. I'm also not comfortable keeping it from them either. I expressed my desire to date again about a year ago to my Bishop. I shared a couple other problems that I have with dating and he helped me start working through those. I never told him about my same sex attraction though. Right when we were making tremendous progress, he was released. I think he suspected something at one point because he called me into his office and asked me one question. You wouldn't do anything against the law of chastity, against your covenants would you? I said no, and said something along the lines of, besides, the last guy I dated was __________ and that's been a little while. He looked puzzled for a second and then said, "That's right, you did go out with him didn't you?" He never brought it up again. I guess it's weird for "normal Mormons" to think that one could go out with one sex while being attracted to the other.
In fact, I think I know why he suspected something. I'm fairly certain that one person in particular went to him and told him that I was with a woman. He knew this because, well, I told him. He came in to my place of employment and he commented how happy I seemed. I told him yes, and proceeded to tell him why. I showed him my engagement ring and told him who I was with. When he questioned me further I told him that it wasn't really a big deal as far as the church was concerned because I wasn't going to do anything with her that I couldn't do with a boyfriend before marriage.
She and I continued to make marriage plans. We decided on the Netherlands. We knew that we needed to be "legally and lawfully wed". When we found out that the marriage wouldn't be considered legal back here in the US, we thought about moving to the Netherlands and staying there.
Well, I guess that's enough background info for now. Now I'll at least feel like I can talk about my current living situation and everyone will understand what I'm talking about.
posted by Latter-gay-saint at 4:33 PM
5 Comments:
I've been thinking a bit about living with someone else in a platonic relationship. Someone on a listserve I read mentioned a couple SSA mormon guys being roommates without all the baggage "shacking up" implies. They don't do anything, just help each other to battle the loneliness.
This situation has been a mixed bag for me. I've had 2 roommates close enough to me to find out I'm gay, and I was attracted to neither one, initially. They were both straight too, so any attraction to me was not sexual. Anyway, my experience was that our comfort level was so high with each other that I ended up crossing some boundaries with 2 separate straight guys at 2 different times in my life.
That just seems like some strong evidence that even an ostensibly platonic relationship can be a danger zone.
Your reluctance to date men jives with something I've been thinking about lately too. Maybe a post... ;-)
I agree with -L- that living with another gay (or "SSA") person is dangerous. I've thought that I wanted to have a good friend who was struggling with the same stuff I was - but deep down I know having such a friend could be more of a temptation than a help.
That's interesting that you mentioned wanting to marry someone who understood what you were going through. I've also though that if and when I get married it would have to be with someone who has some firsthand experience with SSA. And that's probably partly why I've been reluctant to date.
It is more of a temptation since not only are we both SSA but we used to be together. I could go on and justify why I think it's OK, but I think it all really boils down to this. I'm just not ready yet. She is my best friend and I wouldn't be just loosing my roommate and former partner - business and personal, but my closest friend.
We both know that it will happen one day. It's just that neither one of us are ready quite yet.
I read those same comments, -L-, on the other listserve, and I thought about sharing something, but I never did.
And, gay byu student, I would suggest that living with someone else who is ssa/homogay isn't necessarily "dangerous"--though I would agree it requires wisdom and caution if it's going to be a healthy situation.
I've lived with a number of SSA guys. The first two times I did, I wasn't in a terribly good place with my feelings, and, as you mentioned, it was a spiritually dangerous experience for me. But I ignored any cautions and went for it.
The last/succeeding two living situations I've been in have been great. In the last place I lived, I had one gay (active in the Church) roommate and one straight roommate. It was a fantastic situation. I was friends with both of them previously--though they didn't previously know each other--and we all got along great. The SSA guy and I were simply good friends who shared a particular life-experience. There was no temptation. I felt going into it that we had a healthy relationship in that way, and it was a great situation. Our straight roommate knew about both of us and was totally cool. The subject never came up that much, anyway, so it was more just three "guys" living together who were good friends, rather than two "gays" and one "straight."
In the situation I'm in now, there are four of us, and all of us are SSA (though, for one, it's more like a sexual addiction than an attraction; he also attracted to women, and feels no emotional/romantic attraction to men), and our situation is one of the best I've ever been in. One is actively gay and not active in the Church, and while the rest of us are all active in the Church, we all get along great. I feel perfectly content, and feel absolutly no temptation to do anything sexually or romantically inappropriate with any of them. And because we all are comfortable with the issue, we can be open about it when we want/need to be.
So, I don't think there are any problems--in and of itself--with living with other gay/SSA guys, but I do think that we need to be in a pretty good place emotionally and spiritually--knowing our strengths and weaknesses and having good boundaries--before we make that decision or it could be dangerous, as you mentioned.
I second what Tito said. It can be a good thing or a bad thing, and it depends on where you are, if you are 'mature' enough.
It sometimes feels like I'm on the battlefield a lot, protecting myself, being careful what I say, what I think, see, etc. Be careful I don't take offense at the hundreds of ignorant things BYU people make. I'm really not fighting anything, but sometimes I get fatigued as if I were. I used to have some gay roommates and coming home to my apartment then was nice because I wasn't on the battlefield anymore, it was a respite place. Its a luxury that I miss now. no more havens where I don't have to worry about being outed, or condemned, or misunderstood.
Maybe this isn't an issue for a lot of people, maybe it isn't a big issue at all. It just can be nice. maybe thats all I'm trying to say.
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